Paula Testimonial
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[00:00:00] Welcome to Move With Deb. I'm Deb your friendly neuroplastician. And this is a podcast that explores the relationship between the body and the mind from a health at every size, judgment, free perspective. I teach you how developing a new internal conversation based on curiosity, self friendship and simple neuro-plasticity techniques can rewire your bodymind out of pain and emotional overwhelm to help you build the rich full life that you want to live. Disclaimer, this is not a replacement for medical care.
[00:00:50] Hello and welcome to Move With Deb, the podcast. This is a recording of a conversation between me and my former client, Paula, and about the work that we did together and what her pain recovery process was like. Thanks for listening.
[00:01:08] Deb: I want, I just wanna say, congratulations on doing your yoga.
[00:01:14] Paula: Thank you.
[00:01:15] Deb: And also on getting your fitness certification done.
[00:01:20] Paula: Thank you.
[00:01:21] Deb: Yeah. How's that going?
[00:01:23] Paula: Really well. I'm working on two more right now, so I can be fully ready to go.
[00:01:29] Deb: Amazing. I'm so excited for you.
[00:01:33] Paula: Me too.
[00:01:34] Deb: So thank you for coming on and just chatting a little bit about our work together.
[00:01:43] Yes. So, um, can you share a little bit about whatever you feel comfortable about, like why you hired me for coaching.
[00:01:53] Paula: Sure. So when I hired you, Deb, I was in a pretty tough spot. I was dealing with some pelvic floor issues, um, precipitated by an anal fissure, which is extremely painful, and it made my muscles in my pelvic floor lock up and spasm.
[00:02:15] And basically think about the worst knot you've ever had on your neck times like a thousand right in your bum hole. And so, I was going to different doctors and I had finally gotten to the other side of like the act of injury. Mm-hmm. and I was still participating in pelvic floor physical therapy, but that was kind of trailing off as well because of my insurance and I was still experiencing some symptoms.
[00:02:45] One of which was bleeding. And so I was at the colorectal, no, I'm sorry. I was at the, um, gastroenterologist to try and help to figure that out. And I had an awful, awful, awful, awful visit at the gastroenterologist. And I decided that that avenue of modern medicine was just not for me. And I think it. Just causing me so much stress and anxiety.
[00:03:17] To think that they could potentially reopen my fissure by giving me a colonoscopy was just way too much for me and the way that they went about it. They acted like my problems were nothing that I had nothing to worry about that, you know, I shouldn't even be worried about the colonoscopy and my freshly.
[00:03:41] Healed. Not even healed. Cuz the tissue, the tissue was still telling me that it was, it was not healed. And my mind was also telling me that, um, and they wanted to go in there with like, you know, whatever tool they use. I don't, I did not even go as far as to Google. What does that look like? , but, I decided to hire you after a meltdown at the office and a meltdown consequently in my truck after I left the office.
[00:04:11] Um, and the next 12 weeks really changed things for me and were really, really amazing and got me out of a really bad, not only mindset, but also pain cycle, like a bad pain cycle. And so, you know, it definitely, I would say life changing.
[00:04:31] Deb: Thank you. I'm wondering if you can talk about what, what your pain cycle, like, what the pain cycle was before we started working together.
[00:04:42] Mm-hmm. and kind of like how coaching mm-hmm. helped shift and change that pain cycle.
[00:04:49] Paula: So let's repeat the question. The question was, what is my pain? What was my pain cycle?
[00:04:54] Deb: Yeah. So kind of like, cuz you're, cuz one thing that you're reflecting on is that our coaching work helped you move out of this pain cycle that you had been in. So I'm curious kind of like what that was a little bit like just a, you know, a little like touch on that.
[00:05:10] Mm-hmm. So we can mm-hmm. Kinda understand the journey that coaching helped you create.
[00:05:18] Paula: Sure. So before I even saw you, I saw months and months and months. So I, I think I hired you in what may end of May of 2021. So at this point in time, I had already been going to a pelvic floor PT since the beginning of October.
[00:05:35] You know, I hired you in 2022, so it was, um, oct October of 2021 through May. 2022, I was seeing a pelvic floor physical therapist. Mm-hmm. . So seeing a physical therapist and they, like, they massage you and they do an electron stimulation and they do like the heat pack, the cold pack, like the everything, right?
[00:05:59] Mm-hmm. . So I already was seeing a very qualified professional for these mm-hmm. , uh, to address these issues that were happening in the tissue. My brain, I guess. was deciding otherwise. Mm-hmm. . So every time I would go to the bathroom or try to go to the bathroom, which, you know, I, I like to go to the bathroom.
[00:06:24] Um, number two, every time , I would do that. Um, it was a lot of pain and a lot of heartache and a lot of sitting on the toilet and trying to make things happen and, getting very, very upset and feeling constipated all the time. It, it, it felt like a never ending cycle of just pain. This hurts. I have to be near the toilet in case I have to go to the bathroom.
[00:06:52] Because it wasn't just a pain. It was like, oh my God, like I have to poop all it feels like I have to poop all the time, so I have to be ready to poop. I can't be out in public. I can't be doing anything except for waiting for this poop to come because I haven't pooped for so long and I need to poop. And so it was just, it was a lot of information that my brain kept saying like, this is not okay.
[00:07:17] This is not okay. This is, you know, not what we want to be doing. And it, it really got me very, very, upset, especially at that culminating doctor's appointment where I decided to, um, hire you . Yeah.
[00:07:36] Deb: Okay, so then you hired me. Mm-hmm. we started working together. Mm-hmm. and, you know, we're just talking with each other.
[00:07:44] Mm-hmm. over Zoom. And I have some like educational materials Yes. That you watch and look at.
[00:07:51] Paula: Very good.
[00:07:51] Deb: But there's no hands on work. There's no medication. There's no, Nope. You know, kind of medicalized care. So what, what was different? Like how did that help you?
[00:08:03] Paula: So very, I would say pretty early on in our sessions, I felt like the light switch just like flipped.
[00:08:10] I, I don't know if you also second that, but like, it just really, it, it took off and I just decided that there was no longer a problem and I don't even remember like practicing thoughts that much of. You know, I didn't, I didn't have to even set like a reminder on my phone to practice my thought. I just remember thinking the thoughts, you know, that I always had been thinking and then just replacing them every time I thought them with like, it's a, this is okay, like this is the new normal or there is nothing wrong with me.
[00:08:47] Like, I'm safe. Mm-hmm. . And, uh, I would say your material lasts about four weeks. I would say at the, by the time I read, well, read, watch, viewed, consumed all of your material and had four sessions, I think we were really, really underway in a good way. Now, I will say, um, I also have been doing thought work at that point in time for years.
[00:09:15] So it's not like if you're working with Deb, she just like throws this magic switch in you. I already had this gigantic platform of thought work and my brain knew how to respond to that and was able to catch on, and Deb was able to coach me at a really high level because I already knew. Things like the model and how my thoughts affect what is going on and it was a really good springboard. So if you hire Deb, it might take you a little longer because you, you might not have that firm foundation like I did. Yeah. Um, but I feel like we used that really to just springboard off of and we were able to, you know, hit the ground running with my, um, pain recovery.
[00:10:06] And it just has been really wonderful. I mean, still sometimes. When I'm out or I'm doing something and I've been super busy. Like before, when you and I first started working with each other, I was like, work home, work home. Yep. That was it. Mm-hmm. . But now like running all over the place and doing all these crazy things and doing personal training with people, which is very involved physically.
[00:10:28] And I remember even just yesterday, I was like, oh my. Like I ate lunch. I didn't poop. I have to wait from two o'clock until seven o'clock to poop, or I have to poop in public, which I don't like that . So I was like, okay. We can deal with that. Mm-hmm. like, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna go sit on the toilet when we're able to between clients and if it comes, it comes.
[00:10:55] Yeah. If it doesn't, it doesn't, it is not a big deal. So you, you have to continue to do the work in your life and implement it as time moves forward and your situations change. But I think I've done a really good job of keeping and retaining the material that you taught me. So that I can continue to use it and make my life more accessible for myself because I, uh, before I saw you, not only would I have been in pain, I would've had these thoughts like, well, I can't go in public because I'm gonna have to go to the bathroom.
[00:11:32] Or like, I'm so constipated, I can't do any of this stuff. And so a lot of just learning to accept my body. and to shut those pain receptors off. I mean, I can't tell you how quickly those pain receptors went from like, this hurts all the time to, okay, we're fine. Like this, this is okay. And still, um, I think there were a lot of factors in all this.
[00:11:59] One of which was me coming off of birth control pills, which had been like literally since I was a teenager on mm-hmm. and now I'm 42 and. Amidst my injury. Mm-hmm. , I also, my body was changing and so now that I've had some time to be pain free. Yeah. And also to be, you know, learning these things about my body.
[00:12:22] Freaking ovulation kills me. It is like the most constipating thing I've ever had. I've never been constipated like in my life, but ovulation for some reason. What other, whatever hormone it is. Hormone, yeah. It's like, nope, you, you shall not poop. And so, Not knowing that part about my own body. Mm-hmm. , yeah.
[00:12:45] Was also just making me so heightened and like, oh my God, why is this happening? And I couldn't explain it. And I, it was so far from normal for me. Yeah. That my body was just like my brain. My brain was just like, This is not okay. This is not okay. Like why is this happening? And it was like red flags all the time.
[00:13:05] Yeah. When in fact, if I had just kind of given myself that space mm-hmm. to be human and have human things going on in my body, it might not, not have been so bad, but because those two coincided like that, it was, it was really a hard, a hard time that was still there.
[00:13:26] Deb: Yeah. I think one of the things that is significant in the work that we did together was that the thing that we shifted the most was the fear and anxiety and catastrophizing.
[00:13:36] And that's what changed. That's what allowed the physiological change to happen.
[00:13:42] Paula: Correct? Yes.
[00:13:43] Deb: And working on the fear. And I certainly was not just like, well, you know, don't be afraid. Right. No, I mean, I was like, oh, you know, like your doctor, like you don't have anything to worry about. But at the same time, I didn't agree that like, oh, you should worry. Mm-hmm. . So I'm curious like what that felt like to receive coaching around fear.
[00:14:05] Paula: So, Because I had that little springboard of all the thought work that we talked about, you and I were able to delve deeper, like way deep into my fears. Mm-hmm. and like even like trauma in the past. And it, I have a phobia and it also involves digestive matters,
[00:14:27] And I loved how you would coach me at my own pace and just say, you know, how do you wanna approach this? And you and I used the timer and I said, okay, well today I can talk about this phobia or whatever, uncomfortableness for 20 minutes. Because you know, an hour of that is really hard for somebody who has so much like anxiety over something and you so wonderful about the timer and so respectful. You weren't like, okay, well it's been 10 minutes, but we're, we're really on a roll. Like let's keep going. You are always super respectful of this is what she can handle and I will talk with her during that allotted time period. And then once the time period is over, we will move on, which was really great for me.
[00:15:15] Like I. I had a stomach ache a couple times, not like a super, super, super bad one. So we will see if that one comes up, but, When I do feel like, oh, I feel kind of yucky. I'm like, okay, well that doesn't mean that doesn't necessarily mean anything. And I've been able to keep that arousal. Mm-hmm. leveled down. And that has been really, really wonderful to be able to just have those sensations come up and get curious about them, but not necessarily make them rule my life.
[00:15:50] Deb: Yeah. That's great. And so, you know, and kind of when you said arousal, you mean kind of like emotional arousal, right? Yes. Like the intensity of the fear.
[00:15:59] Mm-hmm. being able to, you know, we had that, like imagine it was a dial and being able to dial that down and then yeah. Just kind of hang out with whatever that sensation is. Mm-hmm. and create that curiosity.
[00:16:13] I wanna kinda come back to like, what's changed in your, like you touched on it mm-hmm.
[00:16:19] but I remember working on like being able to go on a camping trip. , right. Being able to like, go do the things that you wanted to do that you felt like you couldn't. Yes. Before we really broke through this mm-hmm. , this kind of, this fear catastrophizing and also the way that like, um, kind of what I call pain behaviors.
[00:16:41] Right, right. Which is like the, all the things that you do in your life that are about managing or controlling the, the pain or the symptoms.
[00:16:50] Paula: Yeah, so as we worked together, that got less and less and less because, um, you know, I just kept telling myself, obviously with help from you that it was not something that needed to be addressed urgently. Now we have to put this medical disclaimer on it, right? Like, yeah, I cleared it from my doctor. I had several doctors at the time and the one who wanted to give me the colonoscopy still wanted to give it to me, but I went back to my colorectal doctor and he was like, listen, I've been working with you for like 12 years.
[00:17:23] I think that things will be okay if they stay kind of like status quo. So I do have to say, like we had my doctor's permission to kind of say like, yes, this is okay.
[00:17:36] Deb: Thank you. And I remember coaching you on which, how are you gonna talk to that doctor? Which doctor are you going to do? What are your, what choices are you going to make around medical care?
[00:17:48] So that was also included in some of the conversations so that you could also feel like you could access mm-hmm. Healthcare. In the way that you needed it, and also like helping you navigate like hard conversations sometimes. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Like with, you know, a provider that you didn't feel like was meeting your needs.
[00:18:08] So that was kind of all inside of that, cuz Yeah, like, yeah. Sometimes we do go to the doctor, sometimes we wanna go to the doctor. Sometimes we have to go to the doctor. Yeah. Like sometimes there's treatment that we're doing. Like Absolutely. That's a hundred percent a part of this. So thank you for bringing that up.
[00:18:22] Yeah. And you know, and I was just like, I love that you and I could be in conversation and then you were in conversation with your medical care providers and that we were able to kind of all work together.
[00:18:36] Paula: Yeah. Yeah. It was great. And I think that if, things had been different with my symptoms. Like if they had not alleviated so much from what you and I did, then I probably should have.
[00:18:48] Gone back to the doctor and pursued something. But they have, uh, I wouldn't say a hundred percent resolved, but they have resolved. And I have to tell you this part, Deb. Um, so I decided it would be a great idea with, you know, all of the trauma to my booty hole and all of the pelvic floor stuff I've been having to go back and teach, spinning at the gym and get on the spin bike right for an hour.
[00:19:15] Just the first time that I went back . Right? Because why wouldn't I? And I actually induced a bleeding episode. Okay. And I was like, oh, well, you know, I did that. It seems like these two are directly related, so maybe I shouldn't do that anymore. I, I cut back. I didn't stop going to the, the spin class, but it was a completely isolated incident.
[00:19:43] It did not trigger any, uh, symptoms in my body, nor did it. I have any pain associated with it whatsoever. I know, right.
[00:19:52] Deb: Like those moments they're, they're kind of unavoidable, but they're so important. They're so helpful to show us how things have changed. Like having a flare is not right. It's not a setback necessarily. It's a setback and sometimes you get to see just how far you've come when you have it, and you kind of can't see it any other way. Mm-hmm. not to say like we're inviting flares, but sometimes they just happen.
[00:20:17] Paula: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's the same body that it was back in May when I hired you. Like obviously it's not gonna be like, you know, here's my wand, I'll just make your booty hole not ever have had trauma before. .
[00:20:30] Deb: That, uh, is an, that's a visual. Thanks, . You're welcome. This is a little bit of why we had a lot of fun working together.
[00:20:40] Paula: This is your Halloween costume for next year, the Booty Hole. Harry, with your wings and your wand. Oh my God. I'm gonna, we're fixing one booty hole at a time.
[00:20:49] Deb: A lot of good attention. That'll be great. I'm totally down for it. . Um, okay. I do wanna go back to we'd worked on like being able to go camping or being able to go on that, um, the retreat.
[00:21:04] Yes. Like feeling really comfortable. So I wanna hear a little bit about that cuz that seemed, that was a big moment.
[00:21:10] Paula: So in my mind, like, it just feels like it was nothing. But you're right. It like, they were, they were big moments of. Uh, when I do go camping, I have my own camper. And so like if I want to sit on the toilet for a long time or visit the toilet like a hundred times in a day to try to go to the bathroom, that's fine.
[00:21:31] But the trip that you are talking about, I think if I rem remember correctly, this is how it went, was, um, like at a retreat where there were just porta-potties. Yeah. And like lots of people around all the time. I wouldn't say like watching me, but like they're right there, like where we're having the stuff.
[00:21:50] So like people are like, why is she dragging that thing into the porta pot? I took a flower pot, an old flower pot to make my squatty potty out of because I like just have to have the squatty potty. Um, things went really well with that. And you're right before it happened, it was really some strategizing and some coaching to myself, like, you know, if this happens, then this, or you know, if you don't go to the bathroom, that's okay. You can still enjoy the weekend. And I really think that weekend just kicked off like an, I had the most amazing summer this summer. It was just phenomenal, of friends and doing fun stuff. And it, it was just like, almost like I was in jail with the pain before and then I became free.
[00:22:39] Deb: Hmm. Yeah. Wow, that's amazing because then, you know, you've also since changed a lot of other things, right?
[00:22:47] Mm-hmm. , so now you're like doing yoga, teaching, you know, pelvic yoga. I'm not sure that I'm saying that right. And working with clients, doing personal training and like, so you're really just like, you know, I mean like you are doing all the work to create, make that happen. But I know that that felt very um, oh, here's a bad, like clogged toilet analogy. I was like, oh no. It's like you just like unclogged it and then, yeah. That's not maybe the analogy I wanna create, but there is this sense of like this gave you a lot of permission to start to live your life outside of feeling like you were stuck.
[00:23:26] Having to like be near the toilet all the time. Mm-hmm. and also be afraid of the pain and the symptom. What do you think anybody, like who's thinking about, doing pain recovery coaching with me, like anything you think somebody should know.
[00:23:41] Paula: So that's a really good question that I have a long answer to. So, okay. You talked about me kind of changing things up in my life. Um, I decided to become a personal trainer and I think I decided that before you and I started meeting, but I finished my, uh, license. When I was with you and I have, um, also decided that I would like to be a pelvic floor personal trainer so that I can help people who also have pelvic floor issues just like I did. So, um, that's like the long version of that, but to say, um, yeah, the second part of the question is in my head, but
[00:24:24] Deb: Well, my question to you is like, what do you want anybody to know about working with me?
[00:24:29] Paula: Oh, right, right, right. Here we go. Here we go. Here's the segue. In my studies that I've been taking, I'm taking a, a very involved pregnancy and postpartum course.
[00:24:39] Mm-hmm. , it said that 80% of symptoms of prolapse, so I did not have prolapse, but that's another pelvic floor issue, are from the brain. Ooh, 80%. And the the woman that puts on this. Training is like she explores all the data. She's a doctor of physical therapy, like she's very legit. Mm-hmm. . And so she even had that reference.
[00:25:05] So I don't have the reference in front of me, but I'm referencing her course. Yeah. And I just found that astounding that if you can get these women who have, like some people have so much anxiety and pain over a pelvic floor, it actually can worsen their postpartum depression like manyfold. Yeah. So I think anybody who has pelvic pain should see you or any other kind of pain , but especially pelvic pain.
[00:25:35] Deb: Yeah. Thank you. What am I, what do I wanna say about that? I mean, one, thank you. That's very gracious. And I'm working on receiving compliments where I'm like, but um, I think what was. What was fun and refreshing to work with you is like that willingness, like I think that you were also really like exasperated and done mm-hmm with how you had been feeling. Oh yeah. You know, and because you know, and you were doing all the things and that's what I see all the time is like, you know, people who are doing medication, who are doing pt mm-hmm. for months and years. Mm-hmm. , you know, who aren't like, People are working really hard. Taking lot of actions and you know, can just feel really stuck in that stuck place of like not being able to actually shift the symptoms. Yes. So I'm so glad and I'm proud of you because like that was a big, it's a big internal shift to go from, I'm afraid there's something wrong with my body to moving into giving yourself messages of safety. Mm-hmm. , that can be a really, you know, it's kind of almost like you want me to believe in Santa and the tooth therapy and like all these things, like the, my body is feeling this. You were so willing. And we were able to find that language and that dance and that like willingness and that curiosity together. Mm-hmm. , I really enjoyed working with you in that way. Same . Yeah, same. So, um, do you have any other thoughts about, I don't know, your body, the future, your pain stuff? I mean, we're humans so we are gonna have like, you know, future body feeling stuff.
[00:27:26] Paula: I think that even though I said I was in the coaching program, now that's not a, a one-to-one coaching program, but I was, I've been in it for a long time and it taught me a lot of things. I think the most significant work that I have done in thought work has been driven by you. So I made those building blocks with using, you know, The Clutch but without that one-to-one interaction and really diving in. And I also really enjoyed all of the coursework that you put in there. There was a lot of thought into the coursework. There was a lot of information in the coursework and it was hard for me to get through it. I had to put my studies on hold and everything cuz you know the time that I had allotted to do those.
[00:28:18] I was viewing the stuff you had sent, which is fine because a lot of times people just wanna pop a pill to get better, and you can't necessarily do that when you're dealing with something like retraining your brain. It's like, um, if you watch a baby learning how to walk, they don't just like stand up and walk.
[00:28:44] Yeah. You have to keep practicing with them and they have to keep falling down and it doesn't happen overnight.
[00:28:52] Deb: There's definitely a process of, you know, of uh, I don't wanna say failing, but trying efforting, practicing. Yeah, practicing is like, maybe the best way to say that. And I think, you know, for other people who like, don't know thought work like I, in embedded in the courses, some basics of mm-hmm of thought work and kind of like being able to understand that relationship between our thinking and our feeling and the symptoms and, you know, our physiological experiences in our bodies.
[00:29:24] So, but I definitely will say, I have like a number of clients that I've worked with who, like we do have this shared foundation of thought work together, and we're able to just kind of start at a different place. Yeah. It's almost like we, but we have a shared common language that we just get to be like Yeah jump right into, um, uh, shorthand or something. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what else to say. I just, it's nice to see your face.
[00:29:54] Paula: It's nice to see you too. I mean, I could just go on and on and on, but you probably.
[00:29:59] Deb: I'm just proud of you. Thank you. What do you wanna believe about, like, you know, different people have different Understandings about like their body or healing.
[00:30:09] Some people love that word. Some people don't love that word, but like what do you believe about your body now that maybe you didn't believe before we were working together?
[00:30:20] Paula: So this definitely showed me that my body is capable of getting through a really hard situation and then kind of getting out on the other side. You know, I'm always gonna have this human body, but it doesn't always have to be like a source of contention. Mm-hmm. , and certainly, certainly, certainly from all of this, I really have come to a space where I would love to help others. Like the work that you do is really important, and I also wanna do important work to help people heal themselves because there are not enough doctors or providers or even just knowledge out there in the world, like you have this pain knowledge. And the more I go into this like pelvic stuff, and it's especially like pregnancy and postpartum cuz a lot of it happens when women are pregnant or postpartum, but it can happen to anybody. Doctors are just not hitting the nail on the head.
[00:31:29] There needs to become room for this other stuff. Mm-hmm. , I mean, I said to my husband, I can't tell you how many times, like I don't understand why my insurance didn't cover what Deb and I did, because it helped me better than the doctor.
[00:31:41] Deb: Yeah. I have so much to say. , right. I mean, I used to think the same way when I was doing massage too. Mm-hmm. . It's like, why is this not covered by insurance? Yeah. It's insane. Yeah. Those are problems that I am not personally going to be able to solve for sure. But I agree with you and I love that you are out there and because you have had this experience, it will change the way that you work with people. Mm-hmm. , it's gonna change the way that you see your clients. Mm-hmm. right? Because you're gonna be able to, you know, be able to see how they're thinking about their pain and their body and being able to shift that and bring that whole picture together for them. That's so cool.
[00:32:29] It's been great to catch up and thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining back in and like being willing to have this conversation.
[00:32:39] Yeah. And share a little bit about what this coaching process is, cuz I know you know one people, don't always know what coaching is. Mm-hmm. . Um, and certainly like how just talking to somebody on Zoom can help change their pain. So I really appreciate you sharing your process.
[00:33:01] Paula: Loved every minute of it.
[00:33:03] Deb: Aw, you're the best. Even when I made you...
[00:33:07] Paula: I know, right? Like I'm just thinking about it. I'm like, Nope, no.
[00:33:11] Deb: You're like maybe every other minute.
[00:33:15] Paula: No, but it's good to work on the hard stuff too. Like if not with, uh, somebody you feel safe with, like, when, when are you gonna do it?
[00:33:22] Deb: Yeah. And the, and that really is part of creating that container so that we can go in safely, that we can start to, you know, not only continue to avoid and amplify fear. But to be able to look at things. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. You're the best.
[00:33:41] Paula: You are too.
[00:33:42] Deb: I'll see ya around.
[00:33:43] Paula: Take it easy.
[00:33:44] Deb: You too.
